The New York Times has an editorial. Read it.
It is time for the United States to leave Iraq, without any more delay than the Pentagon needs to organize an orderly exit.
Like many Americans, we have put off that conclusion, waiting for a sign that President Bush was seriously trying to dig the United States out of the disaster he created by invading Iraq without sufficient cause, in the face of global opposition, and without a plan to stabilize the country afterward.
Well, you and the americans who put off that conclusion are amongst the most ignorant people on this planet. You should have been entirely against this evil plot from the beginning. You are old enough to remember VietNam. This is a most shameful event in your history, and history will judge you for having supported this suicidal, genocidal, mass murdering maniac of a president, The Great Satan, George W. Bush.
At first, we believed that after destroying Iraq’s government, army, police and economic structures, the United States was obliged to try to accomplish some of the goals Mr. Bush claimed to be pursuing, chiefly building a stable, unified Iraq. When it became clear that the president had neither the vision nor the means to do that, we argued against setting a withdrawal date while there was still some chance to mitigate the chaos that would most likely follow.
It was clear from the begining that this could not be done, and you should have asked the legion of people who actually know something about Iraq like Scott Ritter, who would have gladly sat you down and educated you. But you are not interested in education, or being educated, or educating your sheepish readers.
While Mr. Bush scorns deadlines, he kept promising breakthroughs — after elections, after a constitution, after sending in thousands more troops. But those milestones came and went without any progress toward a stable, democratic Iraq or a path for withdrawal. It is frighteningly clear that Mr. Bush’s plan is to stay the course as long as he is president and dump the mess on his successor. Whatever his cause was, it is lost.
The only thing that is frightening is that you believed him. You believed him even after the lies over WMD, after that jackanapes Colin Powell lied in the UN Security Council about chemical weapons (to which the delegates actually laughed out loud). It is frightening to think that you could actually be so stupid, so insular, so idiotic that you would accept the word of a proven liar and imbecile, over the word of thousands of intelligent people who know that country, and the millions upon millions who were against the war in the first place. It is not only frightening, it beggars belief.
The political leaders Washington has backed are incapable of putting national interests ahead of sectarian score settling. The security forces Washington has trained behave more like partisan militias. Additional military forces poured into the Baghdad region have failed to change anything.
No no no. You should have said, “The New York Times has failed to take a moral stance on this subject, and we apologize to our readers for spreading the lies of this administration, and for deliberately misleading the public time and time again on this subject”. There. That’s better.
Continuing to sacrifice the lives and limbs of American soldiers is wrong.
It was wrong the day the first soldier set foot in Iraq.; why all of a sudden is it more wrong for the troops to be there?
The war is sapping the strength of the nation’s alliances and its military forces. It is a dangerous diversion from the life-and-death struggle against terrorists. It is an increasing burden on American taxpayers, and it is a betrayal of a world that needs the wise application of American power and principles.
There you go again. There is no ‘life and death struggle against terrorists’ this is the kind of nonsense that got your boys into this mess, you need to wake up and stop banging the war drums you idiots!
A majority of Americans reached these conclusions months ago.
The majority of americans thought this war was insane from the outset. It is only the likes of you that boosted it, rationalized it, demonized The Lion of the Desert, and acted entirely shamefully.
Even in politically polarized Washington, positions on the war no longer divide entirely on party lines. When Congress returns this week, extricating American troops from the war should be at the top of its agenda.
No, Iran should be at the top of the agenda; STAYING OUT OF IRAN that is. And what do you say about that New York Times uncredited author?
That conversation must be candid and focused. Americans must be clear that Iraq, and the region around it, could be even bloodier and more chaotic after Americans leave. There could be reprisals against those who worked with American forces, further ethnic cleansing, even genocide. Potentially destabilizing refugee flows could hit Jordan and Syria. Iran and Turkey could be tempted to make power grabs. Perhaps most important, the invasion has created a new stronghold from which terrorist activity could proliferate.
Lets be candid. Iraq was a stable country before the americans destroyed it. There was no ‘Al Quaeda’ in Iraq before the americans got there (think about that) there was no ethnic cleansing, reprisals, civil war, mass murder, refugee crisis, or any chance of ‘power grabs’ from Turkey or Iran. The american government is the one that made the power grab, and they caused this mess, and they are guilty of mass murder, genocide and all the ills you just listed. THAT is being candid you pigs!
The administration, the Democratic-controlled Congress, the United Nations and America’s allies must try to mitigate those outcomes — and they may fail. But Americans must be equally honest about the fact that keeping troops in Iraq will only make things worse. The nation needs a serious discussion, now, about how to accomplish a withdrawal and meet some of the big challenges that will arise.
You needed a serious discussion BEFORE the attack. You did not provide it. None of the american journalists provided it in the newspapers of record. You all failed to speak out and help prevent this, while millions of people were screaming that this is totally insane.
The Mechanics of Withdrawal
The United States has about 160,000 troops and millions of tons of military gear inside Iraq. Getting that force out safely will be a formidable challenge. The main road south to Kuwait is notoriously vulnerable to roadside bomb attacks. Soldiers, weapons and vehicles will need to be deployed to secure bases while airlift and sealift operations are organized. Withdrawal routes will have to be guarded. The exit must be everything the invasion was not: based on reality and backed by adequate resources.
If your past ‘tail between the legs‘ exit is anything to go by, you will be humiliated as you leave Iraq.
The United States should explore using Kurdish territory in the north of Iraq as a secure staging area. Being able to use bases and ports in Turkey would also make withdrawal faster and safer. Turkey has been an inconsistent ally in this war, but like other nations, it should realize that shouldering part of the burden of the aftermath is in its own interest.
So now The New York Times is giving military advice.
You cant make stuff like this up!
Accomplishing all of this in less than six months is probably unrealistic. The political decision should be made, and the target date set, now.
The Fight Against Terrorists
Despite President Bush’s repeated claims, Al Qaeda had no significant foothold in Iraq before the invasion, which gave it new base camps, new recruits and new prestige.
Bush is the terrorist. Millions of people understand this, and yet, you do not. You STILL BELIEVE that your administration is without stain, is not guilty, and is not evil. That is astonishing.
This war diverted Pentagon resources from Afghanistan, where the military had a real chance to hunt down Al Qaeda’s leaders. It alienated essential allies in the war against terrorism. It drained the strength and readiness of American troops.
‘Al Qaeda’s’ leaders are in the white house. There was no ‘Al Qaeda’ in Iraq before the americans got there; they brought it with them. Many people are waking up to this, but you are not. This is no surprise.
And it created a new front where the United States will have to continue to battle terrorist forces and enlist local allies who reject the idea of an Iraq hijacked by international terrorists. The military will need resources and bases to stanch this self- inflicted wound for the foreseeable future.
‘SELF INFLICTED WOUND’ !!!! …. if only you knew!
The Question of Bases
The United States could strike an agreement with the Kurds to create those bases in northeastern Iraq. Or, the Pentagon could use its bases in countries like Kuwait and Qatar, and its large naval presence in the Persian Gulf, as staging points.
And there you have it. US bases are the basis of all these troubles. You need to pull out COMPLETELY AND PERMANENTLY from this region, and have done with it. If you do not, this will continue ad infinitum, or until you are worn down as has been the case in Iraq.
This demonstrates that you have ABSOLUTELY NO UNDERSTANDING about the region, that you have not listened to the people who actually live there and what their complaints about your government are, and that you are willing to make and support the same mistakes again and again, like brainless insects.
There are arguments for, and against, both options. Leaving troops in Iraq might make it too easy — and too tempting — to get drawn back into the civil war and confirm suspicions that Washington’s real goal was to secure permanent bases in Iraq. Mounting attacks from other countries could endanger those nations’ governments.
A prediction for you. That huge embassy complex that you are building in Iraq will be spectacularly demolished within six months of the pullout. You will not have a single person or piece of intact equipment in Iraq after one year. You will be forced to leave Iraq entirely. Period.
The White House should make this choice after consultation with Congress and the other countries in the region
why now? they didnt do this before? what makes you think that Lord Cheney will do this? Are you really that insane?
, whose opinions the Bush administration has essentially ignored. The bottom line: the Pentagon needs enough force to stage effective raids and airstrikes against terrorist forces in Iraq, but not enough to resume large-scale combat.
‘YES’ is the answer it seems!
The Civil War
One of Mr. Bush’s arguments against withdrawal is that it would lead to civil war. That war is raging, right now, and it may take years to burn out. Iraq may fragment into separate Kurdish, Sunni and Shiite republics, and American troops are not going to stop that from happening.
Already predicted ages ago. Where were you when the words were being said?
It is possible, we suppose, that announcing a firm withdrawal date might finally focus Iraq’s political leaders and neighboring governments on reality.
I actually laughed out loud at this. ‘REALITY’ oh my!
Ideally, it could spur Iraqi politicians to take the steps toward national reconciliation that they have endlessly discussed but refused to act on.
Once again, laughing out loud at this absurd twaddle. That puppet government will turn to smoke the moment the soldiers leave.
But it is foolish to count on that, as some Democratic proponents of withdrawal have done. The administration should use whatever leverage it gains from withdrawing to press its allies and Iraq’s neighbors to help achieve a negotiated solution.
This is just gibberish.
Iraq’s leaders — knowing that they can no longer rely on the Americans to guarantee their survival — might be more open to compromise, perhaps to a Bosnian-style partition, with economic resources fairly shared but with millions of Iraqis forced to relocate. That would be better than the slow-motion ethnic and religious cleansing that has contributed to driving one in seven Iraqis from their homes.
What would be ‘better’ is if you stop trying to determine what is ‘better’ for countries all over the world, starting with Iraq.
The United States military cannot solve the problem.
Everyone in the world except you knows this, and knew it before the illegal invasion started.
Congress and the White House must lead an international attempt at a negotiated outcome. To start, Washington must turn to the United Nations, which Mr. Bush spurned and ridiculed as a preface to war.
Congress and the White House must be spanked. They should have nothing whatsoever to do with Iraq or any state in the middle east, save as purchasers of their oil. Period.
The Human Crisis
There are already nearly two million Iraqi refugees, mostly in Syria and Jordan, and nearly two million more Iraqis who have been displaced within their country. Without the active cooperation of all six countries bordering Iraq — Turkey, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria — and the help of other nations, this disaster could get worse. Beyond the suffering, massive flows of refugees — some with ethnic and political resentments — could spread Iraq’s conflict far beyond Iraq’s borders.
This was predicted. Shame on you for not saying this BEFORE the illegal invasion started.
Kuwait and Saudi Arabia must share the burden of hosting refugees.
Must they now?! And who are you, in your office in NEw York,to tell anyone what to do? You are no one and nobody, and you need to understand this, and shut the fuck up.
Jordan and Syria, now nearly overwhelmed with refugees, need more international help. That, of course, means money. The nations of Europe and Asia have a stake and should contribute.
Should they now? Why should not you and your colleagues bear the entire cost? This is a problem YOU started, YOU boosted with your impudent rag, and now YOU should pay to clean it all up, as part of a punishment for war crimes you committed and sanctioned in your filthy ‘newspaper’. No one else should be made to pay for YOUR mistakes, and it is insulting for you to suggest otherwise. You show a total lack of repentance and humility by asking for this; SHAME on you you BASTARDS.
The United States will have to pay a large share of the costs, but should also lead international efforts, perhaps a donors’ conference, to raise money for the refugee crisis.
Perhaps you should all fuck off and stop interfering in other people’s countries? Hand over the cash to the UN and let them deal with it. And try saying SORRY.
Washington also has to mend fences with allies. There are new governments in Britain, France and Germany that did not participate in the fight over starting this war and are eager to get beyond it.
There is no ‘new government’ in Britain, Gordon Brown is just as guilty as Bliar, and dont even try and say otherwise. If this is the depth to which your knowledge runs it is no wonder that you are appearing to be a bunch of clueless morons; YOU ACTUALLY ARE.
But that will still require a measure of humility and a commitment to multilateral action that this administration has never shown. And, however angry they were with President Bush for creating this mess, those nations should see that they cannot walk away from the consequences. To put it baldly, terrorism and oil make it impossible to ignore.
Astonishing – a measure of humility?
And as for ‘terrorism’ this is entirely the creature of the american government. Everyone now knows it. No one is going to take these arguments as a serious reason to help the USA clean up its mess.
The United States has the greatest responsibilities, including the admission of many more refugees for permanent resettlement. The most compelling obligation is to the tens of thousands of Iraqis of courage and good will — translators, embassy employees, reconstruction workers — whose lives will be in danger because they believed the promises and cooperated with the Americans.
Lets see you do it.
One of the trickiest tasks will be avoiding excessive meddling in Iraq by its neighbors — America’s friends as well as its adversaries.
Your country just perpetrated the first great criminal act of the twentieth century, and you DARE talk of ‘excessive meddling’?? Surely someone has pointed out to you how absolutely ABSURD this sounds – was this piece not read by anyone before it was printed? This is frankly beyond belief!!
Just as Iran should come under international pressure to allow Shiites in southern Iraq to develop their own independent future, Washington must help persuade Sunni powers like Syria not to intervene on behalf of Sunni Iraqis. Turkey must be kept from sending troops into Kurdish territories.
Iran…um..there you go again to quote Ronald Reagan. It is precisely this sort of talk that got you into this mess, and which you simply do not understand is the cause of all your problems. Let me spell it out for you; You have no right to interfere in the affairs of other countries. If you do, people from those countries will kill you wherever they can.
All clear now?
For this effort to have any remote chance, Mr. Bush must drop his resistance to talking with both Iran and Syria. Britain, France, Russia, China and other nations with influence have a responsibility to help.
No they do not. They have a responsibility to their electorates, to keeping them out of america’s deadly wake, and to minding their own business at all times. Spain learned this, pulled out of Iraq and was taken off of the enemies list. Any country that follows america is doomed to failure, humiliation and retaliation. No one is listening to the New York Times and their utter drivel and nonsense. Thankfully. Everyone else in the world
really has moved on
from this, and they will never follow (at least The Great Satan Bush) on another adventure ever again. You are tainted. You are bad luck. We shun you.
Civil war in Iraq is a threat to everyone, especially if it spills across Iraq’s borders.
President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have used demagoguery and fear to quell Americans’ demands for an end to this war. They say withdrawing will create bloodshed and chaos and encourage terrorists. Actually, all of that has already happened — the result of this unnecessary invasion and the incompetent management of this war.
No, actually america and the New York Times are the threat to everyone. They fail to learn the lessons of history, and even recent history, they expect everyone to just obey and follow them into the abyss, and to clean up their mess after their murderous adventures of genocide. From the man in the street to the very top, everyone is onto your game, and no one is going to go along with it. YOU have to pay to clean this up, YOU have to back off permanently. Grow up and DEAL with it.
This country faces a choice. We can go on allowing Mr. Bush to drag out this war without end or purpose. Or we can insist that American troops are withdrawn as quickly and safely as we can manage — with as much effort as possible to stop the chaos from spreading.
Wrong. You have to stop spreading the chaos.
That is the most important thing of all.